Dobbs’ Fifth Response
Preston’s opening argument in his 5th affirmative is:[Quote]Jesus- Old Covenant Jerusalem killed the prophets, Jesus, and his apostles and prophets (Matthew 23:29f; Luke 11:49f).
Paul- Old Covenant Jerusalem killed the prophets, Jesus, and was persecuting the apostles and prophets of Jesus (1 Thess. 2:15f; 2 Thess. 1:4f)(sic).
John- The city Babylon had killed the prophets (16:6f)(sic), Jesus (11:8)(sic), and Jesus’ apostles and prophets (18:20, 24)(sic).
Therefore, Babylon was O. T. Jerusalem. [Unquote]
The argument is incoherent and therefore a non-argument. I refuse to guess at what Preston is trying to say.
"Go Ye And Learn What This Meaneth"
"In vain is the net spread in the sight of any bird"
Similarity is not identity
Preston, in advocating a theory he calls "realized eschatology," says Jesus made his ultimate return to earth in AD 70.
Preston claims that at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70:
1. the world ended;
2. the resurrection of all the dead occurred;
3. the judgment described in Matthew 25:31-46 happened,
4. all promises and prophecies of inspired scripture were kept and fulfilled
If he disclaims any of these, let him say so.
To disprove the claims of the advocates of "realized eschatology" it is not necessary to respond to every point in their convoluted thinking.
All one need do is demonstrate their conclusions are contrary to common sense and Holy Scripture.
If the bottom-line of the "realized-eschatology-theory" is against what our eyes see and the Bible teaches, it is, therefore, wrong.
Preston’s notion that I must follow him down every blind alley is fanciful. He may not like the way I answer him, but reasonable people know that he is answered and his position is refuted.
Matt 13:40-42 cannot possibly refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 because iniquity continues … violence, corruption, deceitful teaching, and wickedness.
When the angels of God gather the tares and burn them, sin will cease (See Rev 21:8).
Sin has not ceased, but is rampant . . . violence is intense . . . persecution continues . . . bombs, blood, mangled bodies are unambiguous and plain.
Angels have not gathered out the tares.
Therefore — advocates of Arealized eschatology" are wrong.
Anyone who thinks we live in a world devoid of iniquity is blind and foolish.
1. AD 70 is long past
2. Wickedness and false prophets continue;
3. Conclusion: the events described in Matt 13:37-43 did not happen in AD 70, but are future.
1 Thess 4:13-18
Notice some of the things Paul says will happen at Athe [ultimate] coming of the Lord"
– The shout of Jesus.
– The voice of the archangel.
– The trump of God.
– The risen dead in Christ caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and Aso" shall the saved ever be with the Lord.
ASo" is an adverb of manner, meaning in this way.
The statement (verse 17) that Athe dead in Christ" and the saved on earth shall Atogether" be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and Aso" B in this manner (in the air) B shall they ever be with the Lord is indisputably something that has not yet come.
When Jesus comes living on earth shall be no more, because the earth will be no more (2 Pet 3:8-11). The saved will Aever be with the Lord" in the air. This is clearly still in the future.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
"At the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire."
1. Vengeance will be rendered to unbelievers and the disobedient (v. 8)
2. The wicked shall suffer Aeternal destruction from the Lord and from the glory of his might" (v. 9)
3. Jesus will be glorified in his saints (v. 10)
4. The saved will marvel at Jesus (v. 10)
5. AEvery" desire of goodness and Aevery" work of faith will be fulfilled (11)
6. Jesus will be glorified in the believers, and believers will be glorified in Jesus (v. 12)
The wicked still swagger and kill the innocent.
The six items stipulated above have not happened Y yet.
We can be sure the punishments and rewards Paul itemizes are still in the future.
Here are answers to Preston=s questions on the above verse:
The son of a certain king
Some of the original invitees
The king’s armies
The city of those who had insulted the king and his son