Written Debates

A07 (Bunch-V-Preston) 1st Affirmative by Larry Bunch

Larry Bunch Versus Don K. Preston

Larry Bunch First Affirmative

Submitted 12-15-06 

The Bible teaches that the Second (i.e. final) coming of Christ, the judgment and the resurrection of the dead will occur at the end of the current Christian Age.

Affirm: Larry A. Bunch

Deny: Don K. Preston

Note: In addition to using caps for the purpose of emphasis, I am sending this in different colors and utilizing italics for Don?s ease in responding. I realize the copy of this on the list will be plain text.

Jesus tells us there are two resurrections. The FIRST RESURRECTION TO LIFE is in reference to baptism. John 5:24 ESV "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. 25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, AND IS NOW HERE (emp. mine, Larry), when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."

The SECOND RESURRECTION TO LIFE will be at the end of time. John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this, for AN HOUR IS COMING (emp. mine, Larry) when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

There is nothing in what Jesus says that indicates some kind of resurrection at the destruction of Jerusalem! Don has made some assertions that 1 Corinthians 15 deals with a resurrection that occurred in 70 A.D. and I want to look carefully at that chapter to show that Don is just wrong about the matter. Paul is referring to the end of time and the resurrection of 1 Corinthians 15 is the resurrection of the dead physical body from the grave (or sea, or wherever) and the changing of the living physical bodies of all others.

(In the verses below, taken from the ESV, some of my comments are interspersed with the text.)

1 Corinthians 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, v.12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? ? v.16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.

The resurrection of Jesus is under consideration; His resurrection from the tomb; the resurrection of His dead physical body. Consequently, the subject under consideration, concerning saints, is what happens to the physical body! Paul?s writing in this context is not about what happens to the physical body in baptism or what happens spiritually when one is baptized for the remission of sins. He is not talking about some imagined, contorted, distorted resurrection that supposedly occurred at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

1 Corinthians 15: 30 Why am I in danger every hour? 31 I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day! 32 What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

Paul says he is in danger of dying every day and if there is no resurrection of the physical body from the earthly grave, one should give himself to pleasure while living on earth because THAT IS ALL THERE IS! And this is Don’s doctrine ? the resurrection is past (70 A.D.), there is no hope of a resurrection at the end of time!

1 Corinthians 15: 35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" (Larry: I would not ask this regarding baptism, would you?) 36 You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body.

The bare grain of wheat is sown in the earth; the physical kernel is buried in the physical earth. In the same way, the physical body is sown in the earth at death.

42 ? What is sown is perishable (Larry: dead, physical body); what is raised is imperishable (Larry: dead, physical body raised changed, living and imperishable). 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body (Larry: dead, physical body); it is raised a spiritual body (Larry: dead, physical body raised changed, living and imperishable). If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. ? 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust (Larry: Adam, physical, earthly), we shall (Larry: in the future; the apostle Paul was already a new man spiritually, see Romans 6; he had already been resurrected from the watery grave of baptism! Consequently, that is not what he is writing about) also bear the image of the man of heaven. 50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood (Larry: the physical body) cannot inherit the kingdom of God (Larry: the eternal kingdom, Heaven), nor does the perishable (Larry: physical body) inherit the imperishable (Larry: Heaven), 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep (Larry: die), but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. (Larry: we, Paul and every other Christian, were changed at the time we were baptized; this is another change, one to prepare us for the eternal heavenly kingdom; see John 5:24-25, 28-29), 53 For this perishable (Larry: physical) body must put on the imperishable (Larry: spiritual), and this mortal body (Larry: physical) must put on immortality (Larry: spiritual). 54 When the perishable (Larry: physical) puts on the imperishable (Larry: spiritual), and the mortal (Larry: physical) puts on immortality (Larry: spiritual), then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (Larry: Although Christ is Head over all things and all things are under His feet, v.27, there is an enemy yet to be destroyed and that enemy is death, v.26, but the Christian has no fear of death NOW) 55 "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" (Larry: There is no victory for death and no sting of death for the Christian) 56 The sting of death is sin (Larry: when one is not obedient to the Lord), and the power of sin is the law (Larry: We are under law today, the Law of Christ, but under this law we can have forgiveness of sins through Christ (v.57). However, the POWER of sin is STILL the law! Without law, there would be no sin and without sin there would be no sting of death). 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ (Larry: Jesus died for our sins and we have pardon through His blood, pardon that did not have to wait until A.D. 70 to be effective!). 58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain (Larry: there will be a resurrection at the end of time when the Lord returns and there will be reward for living a faithful life to the Lord).

Don is in the unenviable position of being where some of the Corinthians were when Paul wrote! 1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? ? Only now, Don is saying the resurrection is PAST! Paul mentions some ?who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.? (2 Timothy 2:18)

I look forward to Don’s first negative and his efforts to deny what Paul so plainly teaches.

–brotherly,

 

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